Israel and Palestine
There has been a lot of news lately about the current war in Israel. And most of what I’m hearing is that Israel is being too aggressive against the Palestinians and Hamas. I constantly hear the term "disproportionate response." And I see on the TV and in the news, images of the devastation in Gaza. Images that show children living in bombed out homes and shelters.
The images are heartrending. And I feel real sorrow for the people whose homes, businesses, schools, and marketplaces have been destroyed. It’s a terrible thing to have your livelihood and homes destroyed. War is horrible and without fail it causes suffering among innocents who have no part in it.
The consensus of most of the world, seems to be that Israel should respond to the rocket attacks proportionately. But what does that mean? Has anyone who is saying this really thought it through. Are people really advocating that Israel should lob a rocket at a Palestinian neighborhood every time Hamas sends one at Israel? That Israel should deliberately target civilians with rocket attacks the way Hamas does?
I’m not one of those people who thinks Israel can do no wrong. They often take a very heavy handed approach to their security and many of the things they have done in the past have not been good. But in this case I’m not sure that we can totally fault Israel for the devastation.
Yes, it is Israeli missiles, bombs, and tanks that have destroyed the homes and infrastructure of the Gaza strip, but I don’t see that Israel has a choice here. Hamas deliberately positions their rocket launchers in residential neighborhoods and in critical infrastructure installations. So if Israel is going to take out the rocket launchers, there will be civilian casualties. And neighborhoods will be destroyed.
Is Israel totally blameless for the sense of hopelessness and poverty that most Palestinian’s live in? A situation that creates great recruitment fodder for extremist groups like Hamas. Of course Israel isn’t blameless. But then neither are the Palestinians who have been given many chances to improve their lives and yet keep handing the reigns of power over to groups like Hamas. There is plenty of blame to go around, but as I said before, I don’t see that Israel has much choice in it’s response here.
It’s great to talk about proportionate responses when we are talking a trade dispute or increased tarrifs. But when it comes to bombs and rockets, I’m not sure it applies. Especially when those rockets are dropping on your neighborhood. The place where your kids and loved ones live! In that case, you want it to stop. And that is what Israel is doing here. They are trying to make it stop.
Try to imagine yourself in a typical Israeli’s situation. What would you do if the country next door to your own was so lawless that militant groups were able to constantly shoot rockets at your home and workplace? What would you do if the official government of that nation either could not or would not attempt to stop these attacks? Would you be able to sit by and just hope that the next rocket attack didn’t kill you or one of your loved ones?
Don’t let the rights and wrongs of Israel being there in the first place, or Israel’s past treatment of the Palestinians, sidetrack you from looking at it from the perspective of a normal working person. Just put yourself in the place of a typical person and ask what you would do in this situation. Would you demand action against the people who were attacking your neighborhood?
I know I would be calling on my government (the job of which is to protect me) to make it stop. Even if that meant my nation had to invade, bomb, and occupy the other nation. Because the safety of my family and loved ones is more important to me than whether the people shooting at me are justified in their anger against my nation.
January 12th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I think always the history of the actual situation must be taken into account!
Not only counting one bomb versus the other(s) bomb. This might be a rather simple point of view.
Of course bombing and launching missiles is not right at all!!!
But there are certain political and social backgrounds for that (not “reasons” – I condemn this kind of aggression).
And there should be – as far as possible – also political and social SOLUTIONS for that!
That simple rule “An eye for an eye” is not Christian – it is Old Testament.
Moreover I think nowadays there should be more intelligent solutions.
Pure militarism doesn’t seem to me a very differentiated point of view.
Think about the history that has led to the actual situation.
Can killing hundreds of (in parts innocent) people really lead to peace there?
Or will it nourish fanatism – as military actions recently proved to do in proximate regions.
As far as I know many people are obliged to live in these regions. And they can’t escape.
What would you do, what would you think and feel if you were in their position?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I’m not saying that the past history isn’t relevant to the current situation. Of course it is relevant. The past history is the CAUSE of this current war.
What I’m saying is that if you or I were in the situation of a normal working class Israeli, I expect that we would be demanding that our government make the rocket attacks stop at all costs. And I don’t think we would be willing to wait for yet another failed (regardless of who’s fault the failure is) diplomatic solution. If I was living in Israel, I would want and demand a guarantee that the rockets were going to stop.
The current Palestinian leadership cannot and will not give that kind of guarantee. So the only way that the Israeli government can give it’s citizens the security and protection that they demand, is to invade and occupy the Gaza strip. Is the invasion a long term solution to the problem? No it isn’t, and furthermore it is likely to make things worse in the future. But due to the corruption and chaos that is the current Palestinian government, invasion is the only way to stop the rocket attacks.
January 12th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
In the Westbank which is supposed to be the palestinions only remaining legal portion (as seen by the west) when it used to be their homeland, the Isralis buldoze Palestinion homes on any pretext and send them to refugee camps. Then they build new homes with US money for Israeli settlers. It is an illegal occupation. If the Russians were buldozing your homes and moving settlers into newly built homes where yours once stood and your children live in the cold do you think you would have a right to fight it. Israel should give the palestions back the last remnant of what is their legal territory (the West Bank ) and we should all help them rebuild their demolished homes.
http://nctv-israel-palestine.blogspot.com/2009/01/israel-and-palestine-in-2-mins-chalk.html
January 13th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Imagine somebody would bother you and suppress you.
You would become aggressive.
He would kill you – for that.
Would this be right?
Would it be Christian?
Would it be Democracy?
January 13th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
And yet Hamas isn’t just being aggressive and fighting against the institutions that suppress Palestinians or attacking the military forces in their territory. Hamas is attacking neighborhoods and families. The rockets are aimed at residential targets not military forces. And the suicide bombers attack cafes and buses. They aren’t attacking bases or tanks.
My point is that when the average citizen, who is not military and who is simply a working class person, has his family attacked, he is going to demand that his government make it stop.
It isn’t going to matter to him if his governments policies are the reason for the anger that is fueling the rocket attacks and suicide bombs. He is going to demand that his government protect him from those attacks, or he is going to elect a new government. One that will protect him.
The Palestinian government does not have enough control over it’s own citizens to enforce any diplomatic agreement between them and Israel. They have too many powerful armed factions within their territory to be able to guarantee any agreements.
Diplomacy, at least at this stage, isn’t going to stop the attacks. So what is the Israeli government supposed to do about the rocket attacks or the bombs?
January 13th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Jamie
Im sorry but if someone invaded and took my country I would fight and so would you if it happened to you. What you are saying is its not ok To fight back against an illegal invasion.
Its no different to saying that anyone who fired back at hitler was causing his agression. Perhaps we should not fight an illegal invasion and that will stop the bloodshed. So if the Russians come here and bulldoze my home and I launch a rocket to attack them then they have a right to bombard me till I just don’t resist. You are saying I should just let them steel my country. This is still happening on a daily basis in the westbank (legally palestinion territory). Palestinion homes being bulldozed with no legal authority. It is not Israeli territory and is not internationally recognised as being such. This is an illegal occupation now. Palestinions have a right to defend the westbank which is still their legal territory. They are been turned out of their own country. Give me strenght if someone did that to me I’d be firing rockets.
[Edited for language - Jamie]
January 14th, 2009 at 6:17 am
@Gordon
No, I’m not saying that the Palestinians don’t have a right to resist the invasion of their territory. Of course they do. But that doesn’t give them the right to deliberately target civilians in their rocket attacks.
But aside from the above, I think you have missed the point of this post. My point is that by deliberately targeting civilian rather than military targets, Hamas is forcing Israel’s hand. Because it isn’t soldiers that are dying from the rocket attacks, but rather children and mothers, Israel must respond with extreme force. The Israeli government has no choice, but to invade. Or they will no longer have the support of their own population. It doesn’t matter if the Palestinians have legitimate reasons for fighting or not. When they target civilians, they provoke an extreme (and predictable) response from the Israeli government. A response that, if we are being honest, is the same as they would get from any other nation in the world. You can’t attack a nation’s civilian population and expect that that nation won’t respond back with extreme force.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:11 am
no, I would not stand by. I do not want rocket launchers aimed at my apartment building. That is why I am considering joining the reserves.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
This is a really complicated situation:
A nation “A” – that means military with support of the population – is doing things that many people do consider as not being right against another nation “B”.
Now in nation “B” there are some people that regard it as appropriate to choose very aggressive means in a guerilla way against that whole nation “A”, not only the military but also those people that mostly support their army.
I’m not sure how this is to judge from an ethical point of view. Let’s say I can understand it in a certain way, but I think these deadly means are not right and not appropriate.
But there are two other questions:
Can this RE-action justify (!) further military actions against nation “B”???
I can understand it from the view of people that wouldn’t be aware what’s going on around them or wouldn’t understand the whole situation.
But I don’t think that it is right.
And 2nd: can you generally say that killing civilians is not appropriate in a situation that may be seen as some kind of war?
I do live in a country where some years ago many many thousands of civilians were killed on very purpose, also by the American army. Whole big cities in Germany have been bombed out in a very horrible way. And there were no terorists or army institutions “hidden”. As far as I know this strategy until today is seen as a good one, and many people are proud of having done this…
So it seems to be a generally accepted means of war killing civilian people – mothers and children – if you can’t beat the military!
Done and praised also by US-Americans.
I do not consider it right – whoever does this!
It is not right if terrorists of a nation do it to the others.
And it should taken into account if you valuate the actual “re-re-action” in Gaza that has the very same effect – as far as I know many civilians, mothers and children are killed by this.
At least for me there doesn’t seem to be a real justification!
An alternative would be: people try to urge their government to comport in another way that is not provoking such aggressive reactions. People that demonstrate and “fight” for (real!) peace.
As far as I know several people there do.