History Repeating
Recently I’ve been really thinking about our (The US as a whole) purpose for fighting in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Officially we are over there for the protection and safety of our nation. The goal being to keep the terrorists from having safe bases and launching points. That’s why we went to war in those countries, and that’s why we are still fighting there.
The goal is valid, and the reasons we went to war are still pressing. And even though many people disagree with the war, if we had it to do over again, I’m sure we would go to war again. We really don’t have a choice if we want to keep living the way we do. So we have to fight this war. No matter how much we may not want to.
The problem is, that we just can’t win it. The only thing we can do is fight the war. We could lose it by quitting, but we can’t ever win it by continuing to fight. So what are we doing? We are fighting a holding action to keep people we see as “modern barbarians” down.
And that has some chilling parallels to history. Specifically the Roman Empire. In the later years of the empire, the majority of the empires military was used almost exclusively the keep barbarian tribes and nations out. Rome worked hard to keep the barbarians weak and disorganized. The barbarians wanted Rome’s land and riches and were a constant threat to Rome’s security. If they remained weak and disorganized, then they couldn’t threaten Rome.
In our case, the “modern barbarians” aren’t interested in our land, but they do want our influence and riches. Western culture is influencing and infecting their societies. Which ultimately threatens their traditions. Furthermore the West(and the US in particular) is rich. Far richer than most of the rest of the world. So they attack us. And our answer to their attacks, is the same as the Roman answer. We attempt to hold them down. To keep them from being able to attack us, we station troops in their nations and territories.
Sure we try to educate them and change their society. We try to make things better for them. But it really isn’t working. Largely because change in their society is one of the reasons why they are fighting us. So the only thing we are really accomplishing is keeping them from having the capability to attack us. The scary thing is, that it didn’t work for Rome, and it is unlikely to work for us. And even worse, none of us can think of anything better to do.
June 21st, 2008 at 7:38 am
If this war can not be won… as you say, it is very probable that this is not the appropriate tool, these are not the right measures to reach the aspired aim!
I’m not sure if your analogy with the romans is really right: they fought against other nations who wanted to conquer the roman land.
This is very very different and contrary to the actual situation!
Nowadays there are not nations but ideologies and fanatic separate people trying to “infiltrate” and dominate in this ideologic way other cultures.
That is the reason why that oldfashioned and uninspired measures of war do bring lots of fear, of suffering and death but will never succeed in reaching the goal of draining those swamps of intolerance and terrorism. Moreover fear, suffering and death will create new swamps…
June 21st, 2008 at 11:33 am
And yet the fanatics that we are fighting against, are being trained, supported, and fostered in nations that for the most part are vehemently against everything the West is for.
As I said, we are trying to educate and change the societies that create these types of fanatics, but none of our efforts are working. The fanatics are still attacking us. The only thing that has worked to keep them from attacking us, is to remove their support. If they have no where to train, no where to collect funds, and no where to resupply, then they aren’t much of a threat to us. We have confiscated their money where we can find it, and we have occupied the nations they were using as bases. And it’s worked. They aren’t attacking our homes and cities anymore. The only problem is that like Rome, we have to permanently occupy the area in order to keep the “barbarians” from growing strong enough to attack us again. And that isn’t a good long term solution to the problem. For us or them.
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:28 am
The main aim must be to change that bad philosophies by communication and education! I don’t know what has really been done in this way. So I’m not sure if there could be done much more and better things. But I suppose it could! And it should!
You will never change bad philosphies with tanks and bombs. Probably to a certain extend sometimes they may be necessary - and then only as accompagnying measures.
Neither there are really “nations occupied” (at the utmost some parts of them) nor the structures of terroristic aggregations are under control. So I’m not sure at all if these actions have really to do with the fewer attacks by fanatics.
Those military actions moreover have brought (!!!) Al Quaida to Afghanistan that before there hasn’t been at all and by these foreign attacks they could win a new base and new support for their operations!
The USA have given up lots of freedom in their own country and installed some kind of surveillance-state, as many other western countries did. If necessary or not: this does mean a big loss of freedom for their own citizens!
I do consider it very important that the “western philosophy” will learn to communicate with oters and to explain itself to other cultures in a positive way. Intelligence, mutual understanding and tolerance are needed.
This must become the absolute main element in this “fight”!
Military operations will not per se solve this problem, in parts (see above) they have demonstrably originated new space for people with bad philosophies!
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:19 am
It’s not a war of territory, it’s a war for hearts and minds.
And yes, it’s a tough, long haul. But I do think we can ‘win’ by helping stable governments who are friendly to the West to prosper.
Nobody is saying that’s going to be easy.
June 24th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
The situation in Afganistan reminds me of the Vietnam war. Areas that had been cleared of Viet Cong at great personnel cost to both sides had to be cleared again and again as there was no coordination between military and non-military group activities.
In the end, the war became unwinable for the US because the VC and NVA were fighting for freedom and the US was fighting for er. well no one really knew.
This happened in our lifetime. How soon we forget the lessons of the past. Only the dead can escape war it seems!
June 24th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Your right Dave, there are a lot of parallels to the Vietnam war. Though I wouldn’t say that the VC were fighting for freedom. If they were, then they were sadly misled and never got that freedom.
Despite the parallels, there is one big difference between the vietnam war and this war. That is that we know why we are fighting it. And we do have a purpose for fighting it that goes beyond simply fighting to keep the other guy from getting it.
We fight this war to protect ourselves from attacks like the one that happened on 9/11. But even though we may be safer for fighting the war, we still can’t win it. All we can do is make sure that the war stays in someone elses country and doesn’t happen on our doorstep.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Are you really sure, Jamie, that these wars in other countries are adequate measures to prevents such terroristic attacks in other countries? That there are no regions left, no means to prepare for terroristic attacks?
The planning of such terroristic attacks does not need big countries. Some small camps somewhere are very sufficient!
E. g. haven’t the pilots of the airplanes of 09/11 learned flying in the USA?
They did not need the infrastructure of another country for that…
What can these wars really prevent?
Why loosing there still thousands of lives of Americans and other nations?
What are the real reasons for these wars?
I’ve heard about lots of lies that were used to start these wars….!
June 26th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
While no method is going to protect you from all attacks, depriving your enemies of resources and bringing the fight to their doorstep will go a long ways towards keeping them from attacking you.
That’s what we have done in the wars we are fighting. Yes, the 9/11 terrorists received pilot training in the US, but the money they used to pay for that training was supplied by terrorist organizations based in the nations we are currently fighting in.
And as for the real reason for the war, the real reason is that we were attacked. So we fought back at the people who attacked us and who supplied those who attacked us.
Are there people in our government and our nation who are profiting from the war? People who would like the war to continue for reasons other than our national defense? Of course there are, but that doesn’t negate the need for the war in the first place. Just because unscrupulous people are willing to take advantage of the misery and suffering that war causes, doesn’t mean that the war is wrong. Despite the rhetoric that the two sides of our (the US) governments political spectrum throw at each other, both sides are firmly committed to continuing the war.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Some questions:
Did you ever think about what happened before these terrible terroristic attacks?
Which nation gave money and weapons to Osama Bin Laden to kill there thousands of people?
Which nation gave money and wapons to Saddam Hussein to kill there thousands of people?
How much money how much land do you really think is needed to plan and conduct a terroristic act?
Do you really believe that this kind of war could prevent fanatics to get this money from anybody or to find the needed land and structures anywhere on this planet to do this?
Why are there hundreds of billions of dollars for wars - with expanding budgets! -but a big big lack of money for schools and education and for other social needs in the USA?
Where will this nation go to….?
There should really be other solutions!
And I’m sure there are!
June 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
P.S.: I presumed you knew it:
that nation which supported those bad people mentioned in the first questions with lots of money and weapons was: the USA.
Another question:
what had the Iraq to do with terrorism before (!) that invasion?
Answer: Nothing - it was a lie!
Some details found e.g. in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Quaida
Now: who is right in sense of morality with attacking those foreign countries…?
Probably those people are - in some parts of the population - just defending against that immoraltity?
But surely this immorality is breeding new terrorism! It has demonstrably already done.